Comet Lake confusion, Jensens’ RTX rant, best $500 budget build and more | The Full Nerd ep. 103

Comet Lake confusion, Jensens’ RTX rant, best $500 budget build and more | The Full Nerd ep. 103


and I’m gonna hit the button to go live
over here cool cool I’m so Mouse is so slow I think we’re live yeah I don’t know
orden yeah how you doing this morning here you seem a little tired yeah
everybody’s turn dinner bar stayed up watching YouTube last night wait you
went to the bar last night I went out to a bar afterwards uh uh guarding the
party man I mean I know that there are losers I mean after the dinner there’s
staff dinner I know how rude so we have a kind of a different kind of episode
today because there’s not a ton of news right I think it’s still pretty
worthwhile we’re gonna talk about comet Lake Canton 10th 10th June comment Lake
we’re gonna talk about Jensen said what basically he said what yeah which I
loved I mean that’s the best thing about Jensen right everything he just he says
things that get people upset about sometimes unfairly people get upset
about stuff and sometimes it’s probably okay for people I mean it’s probably
somewhat justified but this one’s an interesting one I’m I really would do
want to hear about that and actually especially after wait I’ll wait till the
meeting any a 500-dollar build-off yeah which we know man when did we do that I
didn’t look back on it was episode 8 I already won is what I know
yeah are you on mm-hmm episode 8 wow that was a long time ago we’re almost at
108 it’s like 103 just so you know I know I wrote 103 I got confused no 108 103 threw one away he would
actually be dead because you could put a boil but more could be 103 you’re always
talking about doctors and their measurement practices they yeah all
right yeah we’re gonna kick this off so we have a hard stop because we have a
staff meeting yes and unless we want our boss to come in here and actually shut
us down we don’t we don’t want to do that could be
right now there’s a lot this build off I’m very excited for even though I think
I spent 10 minutes on it but I’m still excited for it all right cool are you
ready to do the yeah we’re ready we can do the intro yeah I am ready whenever
you are ya ready yep okay in this episode of full nerd game pronounced it
right in this episode of the full nerd Intel
heard you like I’m Charlie Tyler in this episode of the full nerd Intel heard you
like tension so they put tension in your tension Jensen said wood and $500 build
off which I’ve already won no way welcome to the full nerd episode 103 I’m
your host Gordon Mong with Elaine EE oh hi I go first that’s weird I know that
says so it’s trying to forget the order out because Adam is on the right out of
order yeah there’s no there’s no TV screen here to block me usually I’m
sitting behind so a little known fact I’m usually just sitting behind these in
the man that knows where yeah so this is like a train that the conductor has come
back to the call the the dining car to like eat some food and you’re like where
who’s driving the train who is driving the train I don’t know I don’t know that
it’s a good question it just simply guy like there’s a cow on the tracks right
now no no we have a special we have a special producer that’s filling in for
the verticals and horizontals say say hi special producer hello hey Gordon I have
a question for ya hey I got a question for you did you bring your a-game cuz I
flew across the country to kick your ass in this car sorry one wait but we’ll hold on why is
Brad back there in my spot I don’t know because I mean we know here in the
studio isn’t that awesome location no no are you gonna prove that Brad actually
exists I’m gonna prove the bread actually is this here in the studio
let’s switch it out I would think you’d do like that that a digital effect where
you know how they make all the actors look young that knew they would just
think they would just make nerdy ass people look nerdy er what would be the
final feature for that it could work I can imagine I’ll just get the twitch
glasses and bags here now just keep going on man I’ll put them on when I win
the budget battle they’ll be my final there you go
yeah already done Brad’s life in the house oh you know it’s a special treat
we only get this about once a year I think right yeah yeah also man I tell
you what it is weird sitting over there I’m so used to my battle station here
you know that’s nice over those sitting there admiring how do you even keep
track of the show I just distracted by all the blinking lights that’s a good
question yes lots of lot to keep up with so yeah I think first up we’re gonna
talk about some common lake yeah what the hell is going on with that cord
that’s a crazy thing first off all the desktop people this is still laptop only
yeah no we’re not seeing tenth generation parts from Intel yet so
everything that came out this week and of course earlier I said Intel heard you
like 10th gen so they added 10th gen to your tents gen they did that a couple
weeks ago they came out with their actual 10 nanometer attention which kind
of makes sense right and then yesterday they unveiled the 10th gen comet Lake so
we have 10 nanometer 10th gen ice Lake and then we have 10th generation
14 nanometer comet Lake so just like they started with mention 10th gen
doesn’t mean anything it’s just yeah it hasn’t meant anything it feels like four
three or four generations I just kind of like Oh we’ll just Tory used to for
people don’t know it used to I asked years ago and said oh it’s basically
based on the actual graphics iteration that was the definition several years
ago and Clarkdale arendelle came out so yeah remember you actually did an
article on it and then the very next year is when they just started chucking
everything in the pot yeah then it came out to like oh what’s with skylake or it
was like oh it’s a new generation but oh no kb lake it was like it’s like well kb
like seems pretty much the same gorgeous guy like but like oh it’s actually
different because the it has a new media encoding engine in this so the graphics
engine is the same the cores are essentially the same it is a new
transistor that hits higher clock speeds which is a plus mm-hmm that’s how it got
the plus X but how is that a new generation when is an ageist and of
course now comet Lake a lot of people are cynically saying
oh this is just whiskey linky plus you know this is just what we’ve already
seen already in laptops ultrabooks like these not mine not that one
that is an H marks only gaming editor there’s a lot of there’s all you know of
course the Internet that’s what would actually surprised me
because the internet lost its mind well the tech media lost his mind what a week
ago when ice lake came out supposedly mm-hmm like until his naming scheme is
terrible it’s like what are you talking about it won’t get terrible till
commonly comes out and we now have it so I for example mean it doesn’t have to be
a binary it wasn’t terrible than it is terrible they’re sick there could be a
descent into terribleness no but I mean it wasn’t like I I people like oh we
went from a core i7 85 65 you to now a core i7 1065 g7 what that’s not really i
I’m not really that thrown off by that cuz ten generation ten it’s still a 65
part because it’s basically you know their high sand ice lake part and then
g7 meaning iris graphics best graphics sorry
the article that Mark wrote about it yesterday just for people who are
listening then they actually made a really nice graphic that breaks it all
down because hearing that I’m very confused really embrace it all I read up
on this much yeah that’s a problem right for us for the people who actually pay
attention to every single SKU then you sorry you actually know 85 65 you as a
whiskey lakes but no so here’s the thing that is got people radioactive yesterday
is is the new quad-core a comet Lake is a core i7 one zero five one zero you
which is like what I mean really that’s the one that makes no sense that you
have a four number isolate and then you have a five number comet Lake have they
explained with the naming schemes all about
they basically I think they just they’re you they’re stuck with the hand that
they got dealt which is they they got these ice like parts they have these
common lake parts wait wait they didn’t get dealt this there’s a woman
no because look I don’t think I think people have this one thing I think
people I really want I people should dismiss immediately is like okay look
this is significant increase in core count so the top end I didn’t mention
this the top end comment Lake is a core i7 one zero seven one zero you which is
a six core common Lake CPU right but what I’m saying is that I’m not talking
about the process behind it’s like whatever it’s however long it’s taken
how is however long is taking that’s that’s a different conversation what I’m
saying is that these this numbering scheme and people trying to stay on top
of it they’re the ones dealing the cards on that they didn’t have to choose the
system no I guess what I’m saying is they’re stuck because they basically
have two different process CPUs I introduced at the same time right very
different ice like brand new you know brand new Sandy Cove cores all kinds of
goodness common lake is essentially a you know a next-gen iteration of 40
nanometer parts with more cores I’ve wrapped my head around it going through
this list that you have on your article yeah ice Lake has a G in the name Isaac
has a G and you and wise are in common Lake and the big thing if you want to be
a hater on common lake which is unfair I think cuz there is a six core part in
basically an ultrabook like this like you can get it into what supposedly it
should fit into the previous sized laptops like I think Dell is announcing
XPS 13 with a7 core or six core common like in it and then the other big news
too is for the Y parts for those you know core m-class parts it it you’re
getting now quad cores previously all low-power you know why parts amber Lake
all those kind of core m-class CPUs they rose dual cores Intel is now offering
three comment Lake quad core why parts that are like you know four point five
and five point five you know TDP at the low end seven miles typically that’s
very low wattage so I mean it’s really I mean of course if you were Intel they’re
gonna say hey we’re offering you a great choice you could have the
graphics capability in the AI and all the instructions of comp of ice lake or
if you want more core count and higher clocks you know then you could go for
comment Lake I’m it is confusing the right the reason why I’m saying it’s the
the hand they’re dealt is because you know they have not said why the most
people say why the hell do you even make comment like right let’s just let’s just
do ice like you should but I’m gonna guess they don’t have enough ice Lake
yep so they have to have sort of backfill with these 40 nanometers parts
or the other thing is like they sort of started this like look our 10 nanometer
processes it’s it’s in a shambles right we we don’t know if this is gonna if
we’re gonna come out in you know q3 2019 with actual 10 nanometer parts we need
to plan to have something let’s do a 6 core part so they keep moving along keep
keep over long like hey look we actually have 10 nanometer it’s working we’re
gonna do it but it also coincides with their six core combo Lake sorter setup
and you know it also looks like looking at this chart that you made comment Lake
on 14 nanometer process has much higher turbo speeds yeah definitely higher
turbo speeds and that’s why I think I think the very top ni7 common lakes are
probably gonna be slightly faster in single core and probably even multi-core
well definitely on this core part then the ice lake part so I think they’re
gonna be very close it’ll depend on the laptops that go into but yeah it’s it’s
gonna be tough I’m I think ultimately we’ll have to see how this shakes out
when the design is laptops come out then because yeah I I was really confused
like what were how do these these seem like very parts I just sort of just
classes each other I know you’re competing with yourself now at like
practically the same performance except for graphics and I do think what we’re
seeing now is that like the XPS 2 and one premium laptop yet right
you know lpddr4 X that’s going so that’s getting it a nice Lake the XPS 13 ninety
three ninety or ninety three eighty wherever it is the latest iteration of
it cuz a traditional clamshell that’s gonna get six core
like so I think sort of the two one is slightly it’s almost like it’s almost
like the Isaac’s are going into halo but also might have also been like low-power
parts almost like and you know I the big win for Intel as far as what they’re
able to do as Dell was able to get a a quad-core laptop with iris graphics you
know way better iris graphics never-before into basically a two and
one that laptop previously although this is a totally new design previously that
same form factor got basically a khorium so they’re it’s it’s the seems like
they’re being they’re able to smash more performance into a thinner and smaller
laptop Gordon I have a question from twitch friend of the show Ruru too was
asking about the the naming scheme do you think they’re going forward they’re
gonna do like a big jump to like a 20000 series kind of like how Nvidia went from
10 to or from a thousand to 2,000 I don’t know it’s hard to say I mean I
think if they were going to they would have done it now to avoid this crazy
mismatch sort of have to have them at the same time it feels I don’t know and
then of course you know I’ve seen these leaked you know reports of you know
accommodate desktop parts and then I think you go B&H carpet it was like
something like it looked like it was like even one more digit it was like a
hundred thousand it was like maybe the headline it’s just I don’t know how
they’re gonna they use the numbers – the numbers are sort of yeah are they’re a
mess but at the same time you know in laptops it’s if they really don’t mean
that much anyway I mean that’s sort of the one thing that people don’t really
get is unlike a desktop where you have control over everything the performance
of a core i7 to one laptop could be as bad as another laptop with Core i5
I don’t disagree just so you don’t know so just so you know why I’m laughing is
that from a consumer perspective I feel like all of this just makes it so much
harder as a regular even a regular nerd so to speak just to walk in to a store
and figure out what it is you want to buy and even between like laptop models
right so is this you know Inspiron going to perform the same way as you
would expect in previous generations what’s it going to be like in comparison
to the xbs line how I mean you would assume between I 5 and I 7 models within
the same model type it would be similar for the cooling but even then like if
that’s the six core and that’s a four core what do you what can you expect
from that it just makes it so complicated and you’re gonna have to
like find specific reviews on these models and given how small most media
outlets are now whether it’s YouTube or you know actual you know former
traditional publishers you know it’s gonna be hard to actually get that Intel
it’s very data yeah it’s difficult to get it actually that’s why I sat down if
you go there’s actually so I think it’s still somewhere on the front page or
somewhere but if you I did a story where I linked is in the comments okay I
looked at all the the ice they can common like parts and the night
certainly we did a video on it where we did a video on it on YouTube somewhere
down here over on the left side I think I actually went through and sort of
grade at each of the CPUs on their attributes which are you know just for
the CPUs versus sort of you know themselves and previous laptop
generations what I’m recommending generally and sort of my forecasts these
aren’t set necessarily in stone but I think if you go by the chart it
definitely helps clarify things because it really took me probably just a and I
understand the anger because when I first heard comet Lake numbering scheme
next to ice Lake I was like I flipped out because you’re like the natural
reaction is this is insane right but yeah but I’d heard it under under NDA so
I didn’t have time to absorb and I realize you know what it doesn’t matter
it doesn’t help anybody to get all angry and go on their Twitter and tell people
about her it’s actually better just like here’s here’s what matters here’s what’s
good you know they’re actually very good parts and one thing that gets lost on
all this these are very good parts you’re getting a six core now I haven’t
seen them yet but come on it’s whiskey Lake you a two more cores right if you
cool it well enough it’s gonna be fast a six-course decently fast for what it is
it’s not going to be an h-class laptop but it’s gonna be I mean he’ll it’s
crazy look we were like this is this is a
core kb lake laptop can you like you it’s like what three years old three
years ago we had two cores we’ve had four cores and ultra books for you know
a couple years now and then now we’re going to six course but here’s a see ya
this is way too bad that at all this branding confusion is kind of taken away
from it because these do all sound like awesome parts
yeah and it’s yeah that explain it like whenever my family members asked me for
buying advice I try to distill it down to all right go to Best Buy play with
the laptops find one that feels good because that’s important just make sure
it’s ninth gen core i3 yeah you can’t do that anymore
you guys I’m Jen core i3 if you want to small make sure there’s a G somewhere in
the name and if you you know maybe wanna you know stream videos or something
you’re gonna want to make sure the number after the G’s as big as you can
make it and you okay or you get an h-class laptop but yeah although you
know what I also realize the interesting thing that is it’s gonna I’m I’m really
waiting at some point somebody’s gonna realize that because I always hear this
you know what about AMD what about AMD well AMD parts in laptops quad cores
right maybe and they’re generally big you’re not seeing them in you know two
and a half pound yep and you’re not seeing many of them and you’re not
seeing a lot of but Intel fan boys and girls can say we have a leak core
leadership it’s all about core counts right you need more cores we got that
with our common lake you got six cores your MD you only got four cords what
does an AMD fanboy and girl say to that that goes on there are very many Andy
laptop fan I know here’s the thing because on desktop it’s like AM DS all
my life we got core count you don’t want to go
with lower cores of that 9900 K that’s only got eight cores right and of course
Intel a desktop is like what do you need 12 and 16 cores and a consumer desktop
for eight cores at high o’clock is way better it’s like part of these aren’t
day like really at odds and sort of the the forum yelling match different
applications Gordon I I think it’s yeah yeah I don’t
know because I don’t see how you can argue that more courses better on
desktop no is good on the laptop – and then flip flop and say on a laptop that
you want fewer course it just it’s just right it’s just enough course no that’s
what I’m saying I think it’s way too bad that the branding is taken away from
this because these look like awesome parts oh yeah yeah I mean shame that
every conversation that introduces it is gonna have to be okay here’s how you got
to figure out what’s actually in here before you can get to the okay suite we
got six chords now yeah I don’t yeah I know six I’m and I’m really
interested to see how that six core part does – because I will say on the eight
core H parts ninth Jen mm-hmm you put that a core into a really thin very
light limited thermal situation and power situation it’s gonna lose pretty
easily to a bigger thicker laptop but you can put that thing in a big thick
laptop and it’s it’s doing its screaming along really well so it’s if if a if a
if a laptop builder puts that premium CPU into a laptop that probably isn’t
gonna be able to handle the cooling of it it’s gonna it’s gonna nerf the clock
speed so badly that do you have something specific in mind cuz I feel
like – who I don’t yet I’m just kind of wondering I cuz I one thing I was kind
of concerned was like are we gonna see these six core laptops six core common
lakes in you know the laptops were seeing now because I haven’t I hadn’t
seen any and actually at I thought they did announce them and then Intel the
guidance from mint I was like yeah it’s no big deal it should be it should just
slot into did you mean Eva Eva is it I thought well it’s because it’s based on
the German pronunciation of the letters it’s Aoife that’s cool I don’t remember
seeing a German flag flying outside the building so I think it’s it’s so in was
it Berlin so yeah but we’re talking about it from here
so it’s I thought it’s just in case you know people were confused what he meant
oh you know because if we’re talking about an event in Germany we should
automatically convert it to Celsius I’m sure so I’m sure that instead of saying
the USA when they took refer to us they just said they always just say OS ah of
course of course they do they don’t try to pronounce it our way whatever I
don’t want that regardless now gardener doesn’t matter we all speak English now
well speaking of Germany there’s something else going on in Germany or
maybe is it it’s over yeah last day yeah why don’t we why don’t we talk about
some some hot ginseng news oh and Gamescom coverage we know really
what God said so yeah so there was an investor call webcast and hey by the way
apparently Nvidia although they missed the forecast they still crushed it
apparently so but there was a question from an analyst and let me increase the
screen size because I just can’t read this I am quoting from overclocked 3d
net a story Nvidia CEO calls it crazy blah blah blah I’m not gonna give that
away by mark Campbell because here’s what he says full quote Jensen
essentially said at this point it’s a foregone conclusion that if you’re going
to buy a new graphics card it’s going to last you two three four years and not to
have any and not to have ray-tracing is just crazy I will read that again at
this point it’s a foregone conclusion that if you’re going to buy a new
graphics card it’s going to last you two three four years and to not have
ray-tracing is just crazy I mean he kind of has to
say that he’s a CEO we’re gone conclusion bit the most actually out of
all of it but yeah CEO of company that sells ray-tracing graphics card says you
crazy now by retracing I mean of course yeah you know of course people like oh
that’s that’s crazy but that’s what I love about of Jensen you know what hear
that anybody you know tell you what’s you know what and I don’t think I don’t
think yeah I know you’re saying that’s what he has to say not one thing he has
to say that I think that if you’re the head of a company that is pushing
ray-tracing you are literally going to think this way because otherwise why
would you put the technology and your cards alright that’s fair right he does
believe in it is what I’m saying it does seem to be speaking of steam finally
when it launched no games were traced at lunch that was kind of crazy
to me that was the crazy bit yeah all right I mean at Gamescom this week they
announced minecraft is getting ray tracing the Windows 10 edition of the
job Edition which is kind of lame oh but yeah and it looks pretty awesome in the
video that they showed like it’s minecraft the biggest game in the world
is getting ray tracing you know all these huge games series are getting that
dooms gonna be getting it cyberpunk is gonna be getting it Wolfenstein is
getting it soon control from remedy comes out next week and yes that’s gonna
be the first game to have several different kinds of radiation in L at
once so it seems like it’s picking up steam the next gen consoles are also
going to have ray tracing support in some way they’re from AMD so who knows
what it’s actually gonna be I wouldn’t call anybody crazy for
picking up like a Radeon rx 5700 XT over 2060 super because it’s still all future
promises at this point it does seem to be materializing but look at DirectX 12
we still don’t see we’re only just now starting to see DirectX 12 games that
are starting to be more common and you got to remember it was like five years
ago something like that and 14 at the time and II was like hey we got a sink
compute is gonna be a big deal in DirectX 12 games and he bought into that
promise for the future then it’s paying off five years later but you probably
already have a new card and Isaac on in the YouTube chat says so wait did Jensen
just say you’d be crazy to buy a 16 60 TI that’s the one thing people are like
they’re still selling parts without you know
retracing in it you know I think if I know that everybody’s that that’s that’s
what also triggers people because they they will say oh we’ll just I mean you
shouldn’t be so in those I I think in Nvidia doesn’t kill they’re gonna sell
you what you want to sell but if you were Nvidia that like yeah you’re crazy
you should buy a 2070 super right that’d be their attitude right the why would
you buy why would you buy a 16 what 16 60 TI is so like 180 200 that’s no
that’s 280 ish to radius I mean it might be a little bit less now
cuz the r-tx 26 these you can find them on sale for under 300 bucks sometimes
these this yeah III you know I will I do agree that nobody buys a graphics card
to replace it in two to three years yeah most people are gonna run them I mean
replace it in one year I most people gonna run a multi multiple years four
years probably very very average very normal in four-year run for a graphics
card if you’re going out and you’re looking at buying a new card at a
certain price range 500 bucks yeah wouldn’t you I mean I would feel like
yeah I would think ray chase is really gonna way onto that because I call of
duty also announced right the call of duty dooms gonna be getting it
Wolfenstein is gonna be getting it like a bunch of the big shooter kind of
first-person games are gonna be getting it yeah which always drives graphics
change in this industry because they’re the cutting-edge blockbuster games right
that being said I mean the Radeon rx 5700 XT is $100 cheaper than the 2070
super and it gets real close to it in traditional performance right so uh
hundred bucks there’s a hundred bucks in that I don’t get ray tracing so if I
want to play Minecraft with ray tracing and it does look really good right it
actually does and and I’ll also say you know control it’s definitely one of the
first examples kind of like Metro where it’s just like I’m a little envious that
I don’t have an RT X card at home like it’ll look at the screenshots you’ve
seen of it looking yeah yeah you know so it’s it’s interesting to see some of
these games finally come out that you know I’m personally attached to that I’m
like okay this I could see it but also I’m not made of money so I don’t I don’t
have the money yet to down on the X card but if we gave you five hundred and
fifty dollars Adam are you gonna go non ray-tracing or richer so you gave him
that money $400 because there is no $550 AMD card if you have four hundred
dollars you can get a twenty sixty super or you can get a Radeon 5700 XT no
because what it is is we gave him five hundred fifty dollars and he can either
buy it likes his scenario goodbye and a one terabyte SSD mmm-hmm
so what’s I mean day so is it I are already having
us the station it feels like if I don’t know but if it really feels to me like
certainly at the launch there was no momentum the moment doesn’t seem to be
picking up feels like the momentum is actually here now so it does feel like
that really should be well NVIDIA is definitely contributing to that momentum
I also find it interesting that who’s at the develops minecraft Mojang motion
yeah they you know they had come out a couple weeks ago saying hey we’re not
gonna do our big graphics overhaul that they had promised whatever years ago and
then they were like oh well but we are bringing and retracing and that’s
probably not them right that’s probably Nvidia coming in to help them it’s
pretty cool if you watch the video that they released which they didn’t say
anywhere in their releases but in the video one of the producers on Minecraft
says this actually worked out pretty great because we could just focus on the
game and NVIDIA did all that crap and made it look pretty yes so yeah so I
mean they’re you know Nvidia’s having to do a lot of work up front which you know
companies do they all feel free to do most of them do ask you that I find
minecraft to be particularly interesting unfortunately it’s not coming till 2020
because that totally changes the look of the game until this point of the games
that are out there like the reflections are nice and battlefield the shadows
look alright and Tomb Raider it’s really only Metro Exodus does global
illumination that you look at a game and go wow like that different one
ray-tracing yeah it’s a different game but minecraft
is is pretty amazing with it minecraft the video that they put out looks like a
totally different game and I’m very intrigued riot yeah that in the videos
of control and I mean there’s there’s a list of stuff now I mean most of the
stuff they showed off at Gamescom you know like this cyberpunk is probably
gonna I mean I’m at it I mean the neons I was already excited about cyberpunk so
you don’t need to get me there but you know it’s I mean to add those extra
things in I mean they know where to put their money right yeah I mean minecraft
is is huge but what I’m saying is would you feel like sitting here in 24 months
and all these games are out and all this stuff is out what do you feel like I
think it’s a kind of upgrade cycle you’re on right I think the the two year
three year four year cycle people are actually different types of gamers and
hardware builders or PC builders right yeah because if you’re a two-year type
cycle you’re not going to care because in two
years it’s gonna be populated out you’re gonna upgrade and you’ll be fine going
with something that doesn’t have ray tracing now if you’re a four-year type
person then maybe you would want to consider putting a little more money
upfront so that over the long haul you don’t feel like you’re missing out but
that’s gonna be a very personal decision yeah also I do want to point out that
there are people in the chat who are saying hey you can do ray tracing and
things like Minecraft on an AMD card you know that’s it’s it’s like it’s
possible it’s true you can do it yeah I know NVIDIA I think is very smart
because they got in on this on the ground floor and they’ve associated r-tx
with the ray-tracing that’s not true I mean our TX is his own separate platform
like dl sss r-tx it’s their technology to proprietary stack actual ray tracing
is built on Windows 10 DirectX ray tracing API and Mojang actually went out
of the way to say hey this is being built with DXR so any future GPUs that
support ray tracing will also be running this yeah so and that’s the same for
theoretically I guess I’m not sure if it’s confirmed a lot of these games like
if you could turn on reflections in battlefield now if AMD in the year or
two does put out a ray tracing card I wouldn’t be surprised if you can turn it
on on that card yeah I wouldn’t be surprised I there and the other thing
actually this is a good pro tip for people who have Minecraft if you have an
account like an old Java I know Java account that I bought years
and years ago if you have one basically from I think two years before if you
purchase minecraft Java version you automatically get the windows degree the
minecraft for Mojang one of their websites and you can claim it they’ll
give you a key right oh wow I didn’t know that yeah I bought a long time ago
you basically have the windows 10 version which I know everybody just kind
of like recoils at but it’s actually really slick if you don’t want to wait
for ray-tracing it’s not quite rate racing if you have the Java version
though some of the mods out there are incredible yeah there’s also shader mods
are awesome right yeah they’d look just as amazing on in some way so right but I
just don’t I don’t know I if you’re looking at $500 for a video card that
you’re gonna be using for four years are you would you how would you really buy a
$500 in that grain spend that much money on a you know high-end card without a
feature that is gonna that is clearly being supported by a lot of games now
I’m not sure that ray-tracing if you’re gonna keep it for five years I might
consider it I’m not sure that rate racing will be big enough in the next
two to three years to justify spending an extra hundred dollars of really on XT
uh-huh interesting I I think I think it’ll be much more common it within two
years but I don’t know if it’s yet at must-buy yeah to me like I’m one thing I
want to make clear is I don’t think I’ve said this before and I stick to it you
don’t have to buy a race racing card because we’re in a transitionary period
and all these games they have these cool ass new features they will run perfectly
fine without rate racing right it’ll just look different so I think and
there’s so many people that are just super happy playing in there there 950
GeForce 950 from you know forever ago and they have any problems so I it
doesn’t break the experience but if you’re spending a lot of money for it it
just feels like you wanna you want to get those next-generation features maybe
that’s just my mindset you know yeah because like I remember me and you got a
lot of arguments when all this first came out over the r-tx 2080 in the 1080
TI I still I’m still riding by what I would have said you should have got a
1080 TI that’s what that one’s gonna go down in the Hall of Fame I can’t wait
for all of you three to play Minecraft with the X Ark turned on so um Brad
Hilton in the YouTube chat points out something very interesting they say most
people like Gordon care about FPS but it’s weird that you know you’re also
saying that you wouldn’t buy something without rate racing because I mean
ray-tracing definitely still has a hit yeah I’m not a high refresh I don’t play
at high refresh rates I’m sixty so to me if you can hit 60 anything excess is
just you know plus but but are those games actually getting that performance
right now with race that’s that’s the part that I find interesting about the
RT X how it’s rolling out how it is coming to first-person shooters first I
was actually talking to someone from the video about this at one point I find it
interesting that it’s first-person shooters that are driving this as they
always do you know back in the day because those
are the splashy games those are the the fast the eye candy but this nukes
performance in first-person games and first-person games are the games where
you want the most framerate so it’s kind of interesting you know but the eye
candy is great if you can you know get 20 60 or 2070 and play battlefield you
can still turn on ray-tracing futz with a couple settings to get it to a lock 60
yeah if you’re fine with that for the eye candy that’s great but a lot of
people won’t be fine with that so I’m really interested in seeing ray-tracing
spread out to other genres because I think that’s when it’ll start making a
bigger difference right and then I I think nothing is it’s not you remember I
cuz everybody of course every conveniently forgets the outrage but
people were absolutely sure that Rachel Racing was gonna go nowhere
remember that sentiment there were really there were people that I got an
hour you know discussions with that they were
like no it’s gonna go nowhere this is this is a dead end
yeah it’s Nvidia really I think which is weird for Nvidia because they’re usually
like the most ruthless efficient PR machine ever I think they really bungled
that lunch standing up on stage and talk about raytrace for two hours not given
any more performance for the same price point in traditional games it was just a
real bad combination that created like a I want to say S word storm but I guess I
can but it was a mess and I think that tainted a lot of people view of
ray-tracing what rate Rishon is awesome if you go out there if you talk to
developers any developer they’ll say yeah this is what we’re waiting for we
love that we can’t wait for that to happen it ray tracing is going to happen
the question is how soon is it gonna I mean ray tracing has been happening I
mean it’s happening for years and years I I don’t remember too many people
saying it’s going nowhere I’m okay that’s been here well like ray tracing
isn’t anything new just because these cards came around
well not in games right yeah oh of course I mean remember we were seeing
demos on for Titan fees or whatever you know yeah come on that’s that’s proof of
concept that’s not that doesn’t mean no people have been doing ray tracing for
certain things see I think that was clever how they started doing that
before they announced the ray-tracing cards right check out these demos we got
four times easier on this thing and then after is like oh now we just got it on
one RT X xx atti surprise that was clever but they yeah it was just bungled
launch all I have to say is I think a 2080 if
you’d bought a 2088 launched yep what five fifty eight hundred eight hundred
dollars for seven hundred dollars for the solo seven oh wait you mean the same
price for a 1080i 650 right at that time is 650 for 1080i right no they were
solid one hundred dollars cheaper plus yeah but you’re now looking at your
card can atti that kicks ass you retracing their will
I’m so I’m convinced that to pay for a two-year old video card at ninety
percent of what it came out and whatever the launch price of the teeny at this
point you can’t at this point you’re paying $1,000 for a 1080i people were so
high so I think everybody was wrong to say by people you mean us know everybody
because three people Internet he was arguing with I don’t know there were a
lot of people that said by 1080p I right that was just kind of like the I mean I
said it and there were a lot of there’s other people that have said it as well
and and I think that’s wrong I think that I cannot in good conscience pay for
Core 2 Duo I could not pay $300 for Core 2 Duo you know what it’s wrong for you
for sure but it’s not wrong for everybody I think it’s very telling
Steve from gamers Nexus a while ago did a video of what people are actually
buying using their links and they were taking a look at the graphics cards and
the 1080 TI the biggest spike they ever saw they fully sold a ton of them was
right after the rgx 2018 launch ATI but again the card was well everybody from
$700 when it came out remember that was that big announced hey
we got the 1080i with $700 it wasn’t really some 100 it was 650 700 launched
you know price and then it was sown for like 8 4 yeah but it did settle down to
$700 so two years after that card has been on the market you’re happy to pay
650 for it I just I just think that’s just that’s crazy happy crazy it was 6
to 650 and I’d be happy to pay that versus
hundred dollars for the same traditional game performance that’s the reason it
was that’s a that’s a you can’t bet on the future like we were just talking
about with direct x12 yeah it is you always you don’t know if it’s gonna end
up and there were there was a possibility that it would there’d be so
much resistance it wouldn’t it would collapse and it was for us to say what
we said at the time you have the benefit of hindsight right now because we
actually are seeing support that we didn’t know we’re gone if we were going
to see this soon something I think gets lost in the facts when we’re talking
about ray tracing because NVIDIA does a great job of
saying look at all these that are coming out cyberpunks get and that dooms
getting a wolfenstein it’s gonna get a patch they’re only like three or four
games you can actually turn ray tracing on still it’s been a year since those
contract launched but when those features are supported and clearly there
were a bunch of games we saw Gamescom that was supported minecraft will
support it your $600 $700 investment will give you those cool new features
I’m really excited for control in minecraft actually both of those coming
out of games come look amazing that’s coming in season that’s when is that
coming in 2020 they just said sometime in 2024
minecraft control is next week or the week after ok sometimes what are you
gonna do when you hook up with your console friends like hey check this out
I got the new PS 5 it’s got ray tracing well huh what are you playing oh I don’t
have that on my 1080 TI that I paid near full value for two years after it came
out No so if you bought a 1080 TI was it August of last year mm-hmm we’re here
one year later we’re here we’re probably not gonna see even any more games
outside of control that really have this until 2020 so you’ll have gotten like
what two years out of it two years is the low end of the cycle that Jensen was
talking about so those people who are on two-year cycles are probably getting
ready to upgrade I think that two years ago or last August if you bought that
card you would not be upgrading it’s just that that is a lot of money you
used you sunk a lot of money into that card already
yeah people with that kind of money they’re probably gonna upgrade
people with that kind of money and you know what people with that kind of money
do you think they care I talked to this one person he bought a 20 ATT I know you
don’t care he’s got three monitors they’re gonna buy some you know card
that just got replaced that’s basically some for the same price mm-hmm and
widened by a 2017 Tercel for the same I know guy who bought a Camry with leather
seats and didn’t get automatic door locks locks is tough no even I could
even see that you know what oh no I’m sorry
I’ve had enough problems with door locks and window motors going out because that
was the model available if he’s like it’s fine I’m gonna replace this in a
few years anyway think like that for 10 years when you know we’ve all gone
through I’ve already gone down how many window motors I’ve changed out it’s
worth it it’s worth Allah says I wish I manual world on windows and a carburetor
and just to clarify there are a couple games coming up this year well I think
about three well yeah watchdogs Legion call the duty modern warfare will have
shadows next year is it oh I thought it was this okay yeah we just yeah and and
when it’s time like to come out next March I believe next March taste one
more signs getting the patch yeah I’m just saying I would say I would agree
that if you or not I’m again I’m saying you don’t have to buy rate you’re saying
everything works doesn’t break everything but if you are buying the new
video card and you’re not heavily factoring in rate racing
it’s crazy I do think it’s crazy to like at this point it’s come on it it is a
foregone conclusion that we’re seeing is the future of course the better part of
the future part of the future part of the future not everyone is going to
still embrace it as the future developers don’t make games to not sell
them to people that’s the one lesson we’ve all learned is they want to they
want their stuff to run on everything they’re not gonna don’t run on IGP right
they have no problems yeah but if a developer has to take time to code in
real-time retracing with their own money I’m not saying if Nvidia steps in and
that’s only going to be used by 5% of the the people or you know maybe that’s
generous I mean they’re not gonna do that either
I’m real curious to see also this week Nvidia announced that its GeForce now
game streaming service is almost soon to be out of beta
they just said come in months which is a lot more than they said in the past two
years yeah but they’re rolling now RT x servers so that starting in Germany in
Northern California this week so you’re if you subscribe to their GeForce now
streaming service which right now you can sign up on a wait list and it’s free
you could just play your games on it you know it that’ll have our TX capabilities
built in I’m curious to see if that’s just gonna be part of the native service
or if it’s gonna be an upcharge or what but that if it’s as good as it has been
in the beta then that could help drive game adoption I think yeah I haven’t
tried it yet cuz you said one of the servers is in San Francisco California
oh no okay yeah cuz I actually I’m on the service and I use it and I’m excited
to try it out and maybe I’ll do a video or something
yeah yeah it came out this week oh it came out as part of games come sign up
for the wait list if you have a big steam backlog that you haven’t played
because they install games really quick you just boot them up get those game
cards sell them all during the Steam sale and get a bunch of pre games
boom protip like micro good deals here really good deals speaking of good deals
I think we should start talking about these $500 pcs oh yeah great deals
bump-bump um well so give him a little a little bit of a back history of what
we’re doing why we’re doing this so we are talking about $500 PC bills cuz
that’s fun we’ve done it once before I was looking up last night it was episode
8 of the full nerd we did a $500 PC build off and it was really fun it was
actually really popular people still talk about it who won
I forget who won I remember I didn’t watch the whole thing I was busy
studying this too like midnight trying to come up with a kick-ass Museum but
there’s a lot of compromises like I was looking back in the PC that I built at
the time had a spinning hard drive and not just any spinning hard drive 5400
rpm spinning hard drive it had just like the most atrocious like
if you had 500 bucks it would have been a good build at the time to try to build
a gaming PC but those two years ago two years later you can get a whole lot of
peace oh yeah these days no all the way we’re doing again we’re
bringing it back I do think a lot of the parts are probably the same some of them
are practically that old I think all right who’s gonna go first who’s it
gonna see no wait people don’t know this but nobody wanted to share what they
were doing because nobody wanted to give it away I think Alana’s faking all her
stuff right now that’s creating a website I’ve got mine the numbers does
Brad want to go first yeah you left one second let me bring up for the home
audience Brad’s PC part picker list and I also
have the link on there if anyone wants to go check it out okay the rules were
$500 that’s it gaming so we’re gonna assume random
ashaming so if anybody here does Linux Linux I
respect that Windows is a better gaming platform
right actually with steam they have proton it’s called and they’re running
basically like wine right and steam and so a lot of games that are theoretically
Windows will only work well on Linux now so if you’re running Linux and you gave
up on that a long time ago because it used to be a pain in the ass to get
games around Linux give it a shot some time but did any of us really factor in
a Windows key I’m gonna I’m gonna give you a tip that’s very not legally
sanctioned but I’m gonna bullet out here and say it with Windows 10 ever since
Windows 10 launched when you install it you can just say activate this later and
then we’ll let you use it forever and all it will do is put in activate
windows watermark in the corner and won’t let you change your desktop
background so if you’re on that tight of a budget I was factoring that in so
here’s go to any trade show people in the you know audience will know this but
if you go to any trade show every single one of the demo stations from all the
big companies you see have of eight windows in the corner so here’s
here’s more another question though so do not go over 500 review go over 500
did you lose all right drive one over fuzz give just addition why also before
we go any further I want to give a shout out to Zoolander gave us $25 on a super
Chet because Brad’s looking extra life like with r-tx on how much did you well
how much do you do our weekend aside going over a loose we’ll talk about it
when it’s all done alright I did not go over I didn’t go over because I
understand how rules work also I didn’t expect to win some in the rules so my
build it totals up right now to four hundred and ninety one dollars and
ninety two cents and here here’s the list for the home viewers why don’t you
walk us through it sure before I start I just want to talk
about when you’re shopping for budgets tight budgets prices do fluctuate when I
finished this build last night it was like five dollars cheaper there were
times this morning some of these weren’t even available so if you’re shopping on
the tight budget and you see something at a really good price I recommend
jumping on it because they come and go real quick when you’re trying to go
cheap but the genesis of my PC here is I just wanted a really nice all-around
good pc like something that had some legs for the future you can do anything
you want on it really it wouldn’t obviously won’t play 4k games it’s $500
PC but I wanted to give it a nice you know well rounded base so for me that
these days Rison 5 is the mainstream chip that you want Core i5 the way it’s
been neutering hyper-threading I just think it’s much smarter to go for Eisen
5 these days if you’re on a budget now that Rison 3000 just came out you can
get really great deals on rising 2000 chips so for that reason the heart of my
computer is the horizon 5 2600 processor which right now you can get on Amazon
for a hundred and thirty bucks with free prime shipping so everything in here is
either free or prime shipping so I didn’t have any shipping cost someone
and so having decided that that I want the rise of 526 hundred because $130 for
6 threads and 12 cores that’s that’s
– crystal – my brain I know we’re starting to get into that era but that’s
just ridiculous so I went for B 450 motherboard and asrock bunch of names
bunch of letters it’s a cheap be 450 motherboard micro ATX you can
theoretically overclock on b4 all for B 450 boards with any AMD processor this
is a real bottom barrel like this is literally the cheapest motherboard I
could find I don’t know how much you want to trust the VRMs but it should
work fine out of the box if you know an overclock so to pair with that I was
really surprised to find it I got a single stick of 16 gigabyte memory yeah
with some people in chat wondering why you went to single stick yes I know I
was trying real hard to find 2 8 gigabyte sticks because rice and just
prefer dual channel setups but that would push it over the 500 bucks I only
had 8 dollars with the wriggle room and believe it or not I couldn’t find 2 x8
set up for under that 10 bucks so we I went with the 116 gigabyte memory stick
because I feel like even though res prefers dual channel I think it’s worth
it to get 16 gigabytes we’re gonna be playing games these days amazingly I was
also able to get a 480 gigabyte no-name inland solid-state drive which we’ve
highlight and deal posts a few times before it’s basically 10 cents a gig 500
gigabytes almost of solid state speed it’s not gonna be the fastest on state
drive you ever had or ever will have but uh it’s a solid-state drive for 50 bucks
my graphics card is the radian RX 570 pulse from sapphire I’ve tested that
card actually I like it a lot I like it a whole lot for a hundred and
twenty bucks and that comes with three months of Microsoft’s Xbox gamepad for
PC service – so you get a little Sun next year out of it you when you build
this PC you’ll get three months worth a hundred games that you can play on it
right away and I mean that just adds to the value I figure and that’s a great
card especially at that price you won’t be able to crank everything at 1080p
resolution we can get solid like high setting performance which I think
getting good high graphic settings performance in a $500
PC like I’m just so happy with the way this bill came out and after that I just
got like the cheapest possible case I could find that has two fans which is
crucial as we were talking on the all AMD build yesterday I feel that every
gaming PC every PC in general but especially gaming pcs need a intake and
as I call it yesterday now take but an exhausting man to get that hot air out
of the case this is the cheapest case I could find also micro ATX just like my
motherboard gets the hot air out 20 bucks it’s not gonna be great but it
gets the job done and along those lines I’ve got Best Buy’s insignia brand a 550
watt power supply it’s a little bit more than that you would need for a build
like this but in case you ever upgrade your graphics card in the future 550
watts is the way to go it’s still 80 plus bronze certified so you know I’m
happy with it 92 but I have a suggestion from the chat somebody who can’t find it
oh here it is a Isaac is asking would you rather go with the r5 1600 and and
get a 580 instead I think it depends on your use case I have a first gen rising
part and I’m still happy with it I have an 1800 X but there was there’s been big
performance jumps for each of the rise and generation so far moving from first
generation the second generation was a big performance leap in single thread
performance and from second to third much more so but I feel like that’s
important for gaming so especially at 1080p gaming I feel like this is a solid
combination cool that’s certainly doable don’t get me
wrong but 1080p gaming you can start getting into CPU bound loads a lot more
often you were at higher resolutions so that’s why I think that’s a good pair or
a bred Hilton brought up what if you want with the 1600 instead and we’re
able to do two sticks of eight gigs so you get the dual channel memory
it break his budget though it depends I know like right now micro centers having
some good sales someone was telling me on Twitter last night where as like a
hundred bucks to get the 1600 with a motherboard I couldn’t find that online
because someone mentioned that on to I’m like I’m looking for this she said
Micro Center everything’s in store your past deals so if you can find something
like that and keep it under 500 bucks go for it yeah we were in store and we did
not factor used there some people asking no we didn’t say that there was no
limitation unused yeah I also didn’t say that you should could borrow somebody’s
stuff but that doesn’t make it last time we did use as well anyway yeah the same
rules as last time I think this is a great build for under 500 bucks like I
would be thrilled with this if I built it so I have two questions for you Brad
okay um I mean obviously for pricing considerations I assume that’s why you
went with a four gig buffer instead of an 8 gig your the card and at 1080p
you’re gonna be playing on high anyway so the 8 gig is really more if it could
be playing on 1080p with ultra settings you should worry about it high settings
that I don’t think it’s as much a configuration and the second question is
you trust insignia as a brand for power supplies because I know for the two of
us we tend to be more conservative when it comes to choosing a power supply I
was a little surprised to see this just because it’s not you know one of the
nice to do with budgets I really wanted 80 plus bronze that’s that’s my minimum
in a power supply like I won’t buy a power supply if it’s not 80 plus
problems and that’s the one I could get in the budget now is that 4 to take into
account efficiency given like ambient temperatures that you know it’ll perform
better under such conditions I just you know power supplies like we said are one
of the things that you don’t want to skimp on and I just like the ADA bronze
certification that certifies that it operates you know it’s gonna operate
within this respected realm it’s not a crapshoot so that’s the patient I was
going for that cool I have a question oh here we go
I don’t see your operating system on here here ready to explain to you just
yeah you just put it on there and you just say I’ll do it later make sure you
do it next week wait what when you get you check you mean there’s no operating
system no he’s got Windows 10 he’s got Windows 10 I’m just a none
activated version of witnessed him I see I’m gaming on Linux
there’s this new thing that steam does called proton where a lot of the games
actually went on when Elena’s did a video about how to go Windows 10 for
cheap there were a lot of comments and they’re saying hey you know what
I run Windows 10 unactivated and I I just have to deal with the watermark and
I can’t change my background yeah I I would be worried because at one point
they may you know what you deadbeats you deadbeats were we’re cutting you off
we’re cutting y’all so I I just think that is an invalid cheat I think you
should I think you should tell us about you were billed okay let’s do mine
hopefully I got the right one because I had to I had one for over and one for
under is it 486 hold on it is at one oh well one of the prices didn’t populate
so it’s 457 oh wait I don’t know what yeah that’s where you taste the one I’m
looking at good try though try that try that one I will explain it to us while
you do that because I need to all right grab screen shows there’s a lot of
similarities here oh yeah sorry this it’s the same one for some reason that
gigabyte isn’t showing me a price when I click on the link huh because like I was
saying earlier yeah to buy stuff right away when you see it when you’re buying
cheap but the link should still show up though it doesn’t show yeah yeah the
link shows up it’s just the price is right yeah that’s 45 bucks so trust you
know I actually considered oh I’m just putting on the screen for them okay well
put on the screen there’s a gigabyte GA a 320 m on the board just a micro ATX
basically cheapest a micro ATX that I could find that will run the Rison 3
1200 it’s a quad part it’s the original Rison 3 $59 for that $55 for my gigabyte
320 board weight so that puts you over 500
no that’s 486 I’m looking at it right here out of the the link that you sent
me says 457 so yeah no no the one I’m it adds it’s added it up for me right here
so unless the math is wrong on PC part that’s weird cuz I click on the same
link and I’m also seeing 486 29 oh really
yeah I seen you I say 456 without the price of the
motherboard so whatever well the the stream is seeing it wrong so what so
they know that link I put in the in there again I literally just yeah really
that’s why so what you are seeing is so with the so we’re gonna go with the
horizon 3 1200 quad core we’re gonna do an a320 m4 55 bucks for memory again
very tough I thought what could I do 1/8 kind of you know be nut it’d be great to
do 16 gigs but at the prices I’m pushing I went with 2g scale value 8 gig dims
DDR 420 430 bucks so that least gets me dual channel I don’t give up at least
that 8 gigs is a little tough but it’s still very doable for SSD this
motherboard does actually have a name dot too but it is an HP ex9 hundreds a
500 gig m2m nbme drive for the GPU I went with the same GPU that Brad did
know the nvme was 657 dollars the RX 570 was $120 I use actually of course we
just sorted by cheapest POS case you can get a DIY PC ma 0 1 micro ATX mini Tower
of say 1998 a when I went with AC sonic power supply see sonic is of course an
actual manufacturer of our supplies however I research that one too yep and
I have something to say about that we’re definitely here’s my thing as you can
see I some of these things it would be nice to get a higher core count maybe
even a bigger GPU but I have Windows 10 home om 64 bit which is $99
according to my list all this adds up to four hundred and eighty six dollars and
twenty-nine cents after mail-in rebate yes of course but that’s you know part
of it right that’s I think it rebates pretty valid because people know it
totally is but you know it was good to tell people that well I think this is a
very it’s glad that you went right after me because
do have like the same case the same graphics card the same you know core
gaming bits their difference being the hundred dollars when you’re working with
a $500 budget for Windows I think this really drives home that if you can get
it cheaper if you can make do with proton on Linux if you can get a twenty
dollar copy of windows from kinguin pay the extra three to five
bucks for the software protection then you can step up to a rise in five second
gen as opposed to a rise in three first gen and you have a 320 motherboard which
is bare bottom doesn’t have anything extra own for 15 pretty sure the clocks
are the same the chips that won’t change at all is a yeah but before 50 you can
overclock you know X supports a couple more USBs and it would only cost you
five more dollars going unless sure why you didn’t go as a fee for 50 board
because five bucks to put them over well I know cuz the gigabyte model he has
here for the a320 em it’s 55 bucks showing on Amazon so the the motherboard
I chose I think the one you chose as well right now with coupon code on
Newegg I think it’s at 6g so it’d have been five bucks more hmm well so far I
have the only actual valid machine with an operating system so I am just gonna
point out that yes I’m saying you can install one doesn’t keep using it but
Linux really is a valid option these days if you just write for us sure he he
does a lot of work at Forbes he focuses a lot on Linux these days and Linux
gaming in particular and it has made strides compared to what it was before
so I can play give you our Steam library every single game a lot of it you can
you can try to play us a lot of it is the same but I’m saying is 500 this to be over
$500 PC build spending I’ll say a couple more times for furlings that’s 20% of
the price like that’s a lot of money to be spending on $500 built it is isn’t it
to actually buy ya an operating system it’s expensive it is actually very you’re gonna save some of that energy to
tear into my bills you guys are gonna have fun with this one so I always feel
like I’m the most conservative member of this team so I tend to be very like well
you shouldn’t do this and if you do this can happen so this time I took a cue off
of one of your recent videos Gordon you said it was okay to get a you CPU so I
was like all right I’m doing eBay nice so my build
I also the the specs are very similar to both of yours are actually more to
Brad’s actually so I have a risin 5 2600 used on eBay and you guys can’t actually
click on the link but I have I looked at sold listings I just bid on that it’s
now $500 Elena did you actually finish my sentence as I said sold listings so
these are the prices that it actually sold at so this means there’s the
possibility I have a documented possibility of getting it at this price
includes the cooler 105 dollars that only shaves like what 20 bucks off of
getting it for retail but you’ll see why cuz I had to put that money elsewhere
and eBay is not your only option obviously you can if you trust the
hardware swap subreddit there that’s an option I actually if I was brave enough
to do it I might go that route because those people seem real cool and they
have like Isis reputation system for that as well and you’re more likely I
feel like they’re you’re more likely to get somebody who understands the part
who’s going to be more honest about if they overclocked it so on and so forth
but eBay at least you have the buyer protection so it’s kind of like which
route you’re more comfortable with motherboard is that same as rock be 450m
HDV a bunch of other letters micro ATX board when I saw it last night it was 60
bucks I checked nuoc circular again or their newsletter this morning I think I
said that’s the same model I saw still $60 today for Ram I had to pare back I
really wanted to go with dual channel and I wanted to go with 16 gigs but I
couldn’t make it work so I went down to eight because I feel like so this build
was in my mind for somebody who wants the best they can get for gaming
performance so there’s someone who’s gonna want like ultra there they want to
get the most out of it and they just can’t afford it now but someday if
they’re gonna want to upgrade and I wanted to make it as smooth and upgrade
as possible so it kind of gets the parts in there that makes it a little less
difficult later on so I figured Ram is one of those things that is easy to
upgrade in the future so I was like okay eight gigs now it’s gonna be in the long
run more expensive to get another set of dims later but at least it’s this fairly
simple upgrade so that’s the justification behind that I was actually
three thousand megahertz I didn’t mention it when I was going to buy so
you get that that was a consideration for me too I find that
yeah the sweet spot yeah yeah I felt this I felt the same way at this point I
don’t really even bother to look at anything below yeah
storage at the time last night 16 or sorry the Intel 660 P 512 gigabyte I’m
not to stick with 60 bucks it’s actually been on sale for less I was really
bummed out that it wasn’t on sale what we were doing this challenge or prepping
for it I know people have said things about its endurance but I feel like for
a normal use case it should be fine in the long run but if you don’t feel
comfortable that I mean there’s other options as well in that same price range
I have like $5 wiggle room so you probably could have gone with a
different model within that range and so the video card is where I understanding
more money and that’s why I had to kind of cut corners elsewhere and I got
a 570 with the 8 gigabyte amount of a video memory there and so that drove up
the costs and other like 20 bucks over yours I think because in my mind you
can’t upgrade that so you’re stuck with it so I felt like that’s why I paired
back on the RAM the system ramped memory and I went with that instead make sense
for the case I went with a more expensive case and it’s because I like
the position of the fans better I did have to buy a fan though because it only
comes with the exhaust fan at the back from what I could tell but there’s two
fans you could do for intake on the front and there’s like a buttload of
space for storage if you want like there’s like to drive cages in there so
I felt like if this is somebody who’s like I’m a hardcore gamer I can only
afford to go with an SSD you know as my first storage drive but along the line
down the line I can you know add like a spinning cloud or drive if I want or
even like a 2.5 inch you know SSD you’ll have room for it I have built not that
specifically in that DIY or whatever case that you guys mentioned but I have
built in cases like it and it they have literally drawn blood yeah so I also
have this standard now where I’m like that case looks like it’s going to draw
blood for me I’m not doing it it’s true there’s only been one case under 50
bucks that I have never I’ve only ever built in one case I was under 50 bucks
that was not an utter pain in the butt yeah so I kind of felt like I know
Thermaltake that case is super popular and it’s gonna be popular for a reason
so I I went with that it was a good price right now power supply so I looked
at the C Sonic and turns out that word on the street I didn’t have time to
fully investigate this but word on the street the C sonic is not actually the
one producing that particular version like the s2 they did I think but the s3
they’re not gonna be like a rebranding of you know how does it power supply’s
what’s funny is that see sonic actually build power supplies for other people so
that’s really ironic that right I don’t know how true
the stream I’m fully admitting to this we’re in the street because I didn’t
have a lot of time to research it I decided to skip it as an option mmm good
go so again I went with thermaltake seems pretty reliable it’s a little more
expensive it’s not bronze certified I think it’s only white certified which is
one step down but to me even having that 80 plus certification is something that
at least you can rely on I admittedly don’t think about hotter climates so I
live in San Francisco so I don’t also have to worry so much about ambient
temperatures affecting like my power supplies efficiency so that that is a
little short-sighted on that part and then the final thing in my build is a
single intake fan that I bought and was like the cheapest one that I was like
okay so I liked about I liked the specs on how much air it’s supposed to push
supposedly and it the decibel levels are okay so I’ll take this one and
superstone is an actual brand that you see people know yeah I heard they don’t
make that fan though Elena yeah Tony told me that are you sure no I made
that up I don’t know it’s word on the street you know what word ah Street me
Tony’s not word on the street tony is the actual rep which stone no I don’t
mean Tony a silver certain I mean the Tony the guy who come makes my beat says
he don’t mean by that Fangorn word on the street is and then they’re coming
rounding so book ending my ebay experience here is open 7 life sent
through eBay there you go I can add that to mine because because for now you can
still actually get a free upgrade to Windows 10 using a Windows 7 or Windows
8.1 license maybe this is 399 I actually have another option here on purpose
because that is for a British UK seller and I’m like well Gordon might raise the
US flag here so the other seller is based in New York Gordon it’s cool so
you’re taking advantage of a loophole in that is entirely possible has been
closed it has not been closed yet oh this has not been so
it’s available now I come outside 496 495 in nice sense well that’s if you go
with the USO and so yeah this this cut a little a couple of corners but for me
was actually interesting doing it as an exercise anyway because I don’t by use
typically so it’s just kind of interesting to see what’s on eBay and
Gordon I did it because specifically you said it was ok to do it yeah so my
problem with buy used as recommended by z– is it’s there’s no fixed price it’s
it there’s no fixed quality there’s no fixed supplier I don’t disagree with
something I’m just saying that it’s a real-world tactic that people use sure
ready to give it a shot this time such a price constraint built yeah like a
hundred boxes I have one of those outfits a waster and I just go rummage
through like a way stuff that’s another possibility people do too you just get
fence I just don’t think that I personally don’t think that fits the
spirit of a build not having operating system buying used components from
somebody might even be counterfeit I don’t know if I used somebody I know
just did a video about whether or not it’s okay to buy but I’m saying is
recommended you you would not recommending this as a strategy to
everybody this is my bill wait Adam and we got to do Adam cuz we’re gonna hit
that I mean we don’t have to you know really uh you don’t want to do it I mean
I went over the law because we were talking on the on the walk to public
transit yesterday and it sounded like you were going with a really specific
strategy I wanna see how that played out yeah well actually I made two builds
link with us to Adam yeah I want to submit do the one you win the the first
build is is underpriced copy and paste I need to bring it up I find I think it’s
interesting Elena’s in my build while you’re doing that is a lot of like the
big difference being the RAM which I think we came from the same kind of idea
like that’s where you can sacrifice I think it’s interesting we just took two
different directions you’re like you can replace this whole hog and
where I’m like and I’ll spend that to get the 116 gigabyte now and then my
thought was when you have the extra 60 bucks you can just get another one and
plop it in that true so a couple things for me we’re a quick it was humbling to
do this I obviously didn’t spend a ton of time on it but it for me I was like
dang you know it is hard to sit here especially if you’re limited on budget
you know I mostly play and like building pcs like you know not in a $500 budget
so you know the people who have to do this they really have to to put some
time and effort into it and I’m also lucky because I’m definitely the most
junior on the team for PC building but I get to I get to be here in the office
with Gordon or slack Brad and be like hey which would you pick so I’m lucky
enough to have people who I can bounce ideas off of I didn’t do it for this
obviously but you know who knows anyway so this is this is my first build I’ll
bring it up here I went with 2,200 G you know I owe you know what before that I
will back up and say so for me the kind of build I was thinking of was imagine
if I am a video editor who needs a work box that you know with you know like so
I came at it not from gaming I came at it from video editing photo editing I
need this PC to do my work which is why the other one went over but yeah anyway
the so yeah the this first one Rison 2200 G I needed quad-core I needed
you know some good clocks the motherboard you know I just got a nice
motherboard I didn’t think too much about it I definitely need the the 2
channel I need 16 gigs at least for the for the program so I used for video this
one I I did have an SSD I could have went even cheaper but I mean whatever is
$30 and then the the one terabyte spinning platter sure if the spinning
platter that sucks but I need room for my video files so I needed a big a big
option and I went with a 1650 because I need that CUDA performance especially in
in my my editing software suite and the case actually spent a little
but I’m on the case because I cared I guess more about aesthetics and I
actually kinda I’ve never seen this case before you know yeah I actually kind of
liked the look of the case has like the magnetic like dust filter that you can
pop off the front like that’s what the the aesthetic is from I don’t know no
cuz it wraps around at the top there’s like a handle to like I was just like
wow okay this for that cheap that’s actually not that bad of a case and yeah
the the power sucks like whatever the cheapest like you get so and then I
assumed I you know if I’m a video editor on a budget I’m running a and on
unlicensed version of Windows 10 because I can’t do Linux with Santilli problem
you don’t have you don’t have an operating system either I have an
operating system yeah exactly yeah so on top of that I have to pay for it we
creative Colette so my second build or does anyone want
to say on the one before I get to my you did this because I think it’s really
interesting to see it from the perspective the video editor she said I
like this a lot actually the one thing I have a question on is why didn’t you go
with 3,000 megahertz memory because it would only cost you like another five to
ten bucks and you have to uh to get three thousand and dual channel is much
more as the reason I only have the one no when I was looking last night on you
a guy was finding oh I was only to clarify I was only looking on PC per
figure I was when I was 70 or 75 Wow like I said I’m curious one stick
because I couldn’t find dual channel let’s take a look cuz you know I am up
pricing I had an alternate I actually had an alternate build where I went with
a dual core Celeron it was just too stupid cheap and they got me I could
still run dual core where the 500 gig SSD but he can move me up to a 580 I
actually had a 580 built for 525 but I didn’t want to go over so I thought
about that too about going into them I didn’t mention this on my build but the
reason they decided to go with AMD was because of the upgrade path right
because I get a name for board that means that if I want to upgrade to third
gen Rison then I can do that whereas if I pick an intel part i’m
locked into like a really narrow window yeah I sort of think that it though if
you’re you’re basically if you’re basically not even running an operating
system that you’re probably not going to be going on buying a ninety nine hundred this is the alternate build but I know
you can get up to it probably yeah you know that’s good well real quick my
alternate build there we go I put into the thing I actually have inaudible I
will show what I have in here because I mean I’m a video editor honestly I was
like dang as much as it’d be cool to go with Rhys and I need I need I need that
I GP you know quick sync would would wonders on this stuff so I kind of took
a cut on the the video card just you know because Adobe still does support
this I still get CUDA performance but I get that I GP in that 9400 but today I’m
gonna call an audible on PC world right now you can get an i-5 9600 K for $220
so about about 30 more dollars on this will get me six cores and for a video
editor I just want to clarify when you say on PC we’re we’re talking about the
UK store are you talking about I was like it’s on it’s on no no it’s it’s on
Amazon that there’s a link on the okay thank you world calm right now so yeah
man oh man I get I get quick sync I get six cores you know sure I I don’t get as
be for you as a graphics card but I still get that CUDA performance I did
have to drop the the SSD which is fine I’m fine going with a bigger spinning
platter disc I still get the two channel memory in this case I didn’t like as
much as the other one but I did want to try to look for a different case and
this one I kind of liked to from a visual standpoint I don’t know what
about air flow and and stuff like that but so yeah that was my second one
because I’m like listen if if if I’m really building this and I’m gonna do
work I’m gonna go over budget I’m gonna be like man if I can get six cores and
IGP and pay for the Intel premium it really doesn’t matter in what
I do as a video editor so yeah this building it’s not a great gaming box
with a 10:30 but for video editing it’s you know for entry-level video I think
it’s it’s quite alright right and yeah somebody’s pointing out I’m getting
compatibility warnings but yeah that’s the UH you have the chipset biasing so I
I just I don’t know I I think that the one interesting thing is everybody
willing to basically not have it well you three essentially don’t have
operation alright we got to go to our meeting we actually have to go say I
think it’s I think it’s ridiculous I think it’s ridiculous I don’t disagree
with you boarding I would say that you know if I’m talking to somebody from a
media outlet and kind of doing more the official voice like I wouldn’t
necessarily recommend these things per se like as I’m like this is the only way
but there is a real world kind of situation to you have taken into account
you got to stay current and you know relate to the people yeah oh hang on I
got a call yeah you literally do oh wait look who’s calling me I wanted to know
what you thought about running unlicensed activation anyway that’s not
actually that’s not okay that’s Microsoft would frown on that
that’s what about trying to buy Windows 7 and then telling somebody to upgrade
that you think that’s oh yeah is supported you think that’s a serious
pain in the ass to tell somebody to do on a new machine yeah you could do it
you tell tell Nadella that we need to go we have a big meeting cock it out so
their names are Brad chakra Selena Yee and Anna Patrick Murray if you could
have them turn them off in the database I’ll see you later so Brad’s build
actually could be better I found $60 to dam kit same price as my
single state so get that yeah who won
we’ve got people all across the board saying you know different versions I
have one that actually works I am you some buying software expertise in to
find the full nerd for tech topics rating the review us anywhere that you
do your audio stuff right here we gotta go go to the comments and say II think I
won because I had the only one who followed the rules next week for your fix of PC talk on the
folder for audio listeners those characters on iTunes Google Play or
stitcher and sync questions that comments to the folder at PC world calm
and also leave reviews on iTunes comm or other places because every time you do
people buy legitimate versions of operating systems thanks for coming I’m
Gordon done with Brad chuckles as the gaming editor I know which one I’d want
to play on Alayna ye Patrick Murray’s can hit the all I’m sorry we didn’t get
to Q&A we will get to next week but we have to go thank you everyone

100 Replies to “Comet Lake confusion, Jensens’ RTX rant, best $500 budget build and more | The Full Nerd ep. 103”

  1. So how many games now support full Ray Tracing? I think that's NONE! Why is that? Probably because current RTX cards are not good enough to play a game well enough that would support all aspects of Ray Tracing.

  2. There aren't any consumer graphic cards that are good enough to run full Ray Tracing at high enough FPS. 60 FPS is not good enough in today's gaming world.

  3. Hey guys, when you say a game is getting Ray Tracing and you please say what aspect of Ray Tracing it's getting because different games are getting just certain aspects of Ray Tracing. BTW, how many aspects of Ray Tracing are there?

  4. I don't know who won the PC build but I do know who lost it. Gordon whith his $110 spending on Windows10. There are keyresellers who legally sell legit keys for a lot less so even if you want to use Windows…Gordon, good luck with running Windows10 with only 8 GB of memory. πŸ˜›
    Let us know how often your computer crashes because you don't use virtual memory because you only use a SSD. πŸ˜‰

    Alaina and Brad both made painful compromises. Brad has the better CPU but I speculate that his gaming performance might be even worse than for Alaina with her quadcore-CPU and only 8 GB of RAM because Brad has single-channel RAM. I guess that Adam is the winner, at least his build is solid for what he wants to do with it.

  5. Nice one, Elaina! Especially the Win 7. If its Pro or Ultimate, you can use the key to upgrade to Win 10 Pro. Even Win 8/8.1 Pro keys will work for the upgrade…sorry, Gordon: NOT maybe! Its not a loophole…suck it up, dude!

  6. Even intel's shills are completely bamboozled by intel's nomenclature, that's how bad it is.

    Also, did I hear that right? You recommend buying overpriced graphics cards for the feature that drops your fps by half, supported in, like, 3 games and you literally have to use magnifying glass to see the difference?
    I can understand why Huang says what he says, he has to, he's a CEO. Why so called "experts" say that if they aren't paid to promote this bullshit?

  7. Just rebuilt my system and Windows wouldn't activate through digital license that I made sure I had connected to my MS account. I have an old Win7Pro Laptop that has an enterprise license, the same key I used in the previous build when Win10 first came out. Used that same key for at least 4 other upgrades I did for friends/family and it still worked with no issue. Microsoft doesn't care, they just want you to be on their platform…

  8. Paying extra for ray tracing now doesn't make sense. Current cards aren't going to be running RTX features very well on games that come up in two or three years. Also think it is fair to say that most people buying high end cards want higher than 60 fps. I know that I do. I'm picking up a 1440p 144hz monitor, I'd rather reach for those frame rates than have pretty reflections and lighting. Next gen ray tracing cards might be must buys, but they certainly aren't now.

  9. This what makes Nvidia different from AMD… they really push developer to implement their tech, they also always choose the most popular games.

    Nvidia knew how to make their product relevant. To make us want to buy their stuff. To gain mind share.

  10. I didn't have to buy RTX, I got upgraded to an RTX 2080 for free from having to RMA my 1080 ti. Suck it Jensen. It's actually coming to me the same day Control releases, I'm pretty excited. At the time the 1080ti was less than 1200 AUD, while the 2080 encroached 1500 aud, no games had RTX yet and I upgrade every 2 years so I said I'd wait for 2020-2021 to jump on the RTX train. It made a lot of sense to get the 1080ti.. and now I get RTX anyway without ever having paid that premium so suck it everyone else lmao.

  11. You can't add a rule like no use hardware for budget build competition after the fact. That's such an obvious option and in the spirit of the competition.

  12. *Allaina Won*, Brad=2, Ian=3, Gordon lost… because of the unnecessary expense of the OS. LOL, get over it Gordon.

  13. I still say Ray Tracing is like Tessellation. It'll be years before we can run it with a level of detail that revolutionizes graphics, instead of just being a smattering of eye candy. If I'm getting a new Gpu, I expect to be able to run all modern games at native resolution, ultra settings, all features of the Gpu on, and consistently north of 80 fps but as close to the rating of the monitor as possible (144 would be great). So for me that's 2560×1080. This way I don't need top tier boards for a great experience.

  14. You worry about an extra $100 for rtx
    But most people I met spend at least $100 a weekend at a bar/club. Everyone else does at least some weekend activity like a 100$ family dinner or 60$ movies and popcorn…. So why cry about 100$ on something you will use for 2hr+/day x 3 years

  15. Wow Brad is a real person, Not just stuck behind a 40" LCD screen. I think you should move closer to the studio that way he can actually Participate in the live discussion. # Brad get a baby sitter and move closer to the staff

  16. Gordon your still wrong! πŸ™‚ Rtx is still a massive performance hit on anything over 1080p. Most gamers who drop 800-1000+ dollars on a video card don't play 1080p. I went 1080ti and don't regret it, RTX was overpriced at launch and is only slightly better value now with the super range. RTX is great but I won't invest until it's atleast second generation and more titles support it!

  17. That Brad signal is really coming through crisp… i mean, its like he's right there in the room. Amazing what tech can do.

  18. i7 10517u icelake is a 4 number icelake? how do you get 4 numbers out of that. 10517 thats 5. not trying to heckle you, im honestly curious if you just read it wrong or what

  19. the cometlake i7 on desktop is gonna be a 9900k. the 9700k or the 8700k ( i hope a soldered 8700k) will be the next i5. its not gonna blow amd out of the water but an 8700k, soldered, for 260 for an i5? that aint bad, same for the i7. the 10 core i9 is the one getting the headlines but will be the least relevant one. that 816 i7 and hopefully a 612 i5 will be the real story (88 for the i5 will do though)

    the thing is that 10nm takes quad patterning just like 7nm tsmc. you can do 10nm with EUV on single patterning probalby but there are problems with single patterning on EUV getting the features to come out shaped correclty ive heard. so for EUV you have to go dual patterned. thats what intel call 7nm and tsmc call 5nm. the 7nm with EUV that tsmc have coming out is only for a couple layers and doesnt really count.

    but this 7nm dual patterned EUV process is what intel is pushing for on desktop. 10nm will cost more, yield lower, and clock lower than 14nm so why not just stick with 14nm? they kinda have to. same story is true for amd and the only way they could get around it was to go to chiplets. they made it work beautifully but if the new nodes come out they could make chiplets irrelevant again till the next roadblock. and by that time intel can have a chiplet strategy in play.

    so it all hinges on EUV. we'll have to wait another year or 2 to see who made the right bet. people are saying that amd has already won that bet but thats like calling a race halfway through with amd a horse length or 2 ahead. itll be hard for intel to come back but its not impossible. the main thing is that there is competition again. it shouldnt be all about crushing intel for some reason

  20. intel should just go back to 1000 instead of 10,000. 1700k doesnt sound too bad. but intel never does 1's. its always a 0 and then it goes to 2. idk should just change the whole scheme up. do something different. i guess they are waiting till they do something different with their hardware first. hope that comes sooner than later

  21. elaina's right. laptop shopping takes a week of research for somebody that isnt in the loop. a full 8 hours for somebody "in the know" that hasnt kept track of laptops for the last couple years

  22. dont mess with kinguin. i paid for the buyer protesction and got the run around on 6 different support calls. told the next on that i had cleared the whole morning to get this straightened up. tech support people cant hand up on you unless you are mean so thats a good way to get results. i finally got a refund for a game key that didnt work. a week later sombody spent 500 dollars on my credit card. no kinguin

    they told me i had to get steam to tell them that the key was activated before the date i bought it. steam said they dont do that …ever. i told them that and they said it was my problem. i filled out 5 tickets with steam ( it was the principle of the thing at that point). the last ticket i just say "hey can you tell me was the key activated before this date" and they said yes it was. go away.

    kinguin wouldnt take my word or a screen shot. they insisted on REMOTING into my computer with team viewer. i let them because i could wathc their movements and i reinstall windows once every 6 monhts anyway. once they saw it on my account (the support ticket) they finally relented. and then spent 500 dollars on my credit card, which fraud protection covered

    ebay keeps sellers money for 30 days and they yank it basically on the buyers word. thats why i wont sell on ebay. the buyer can rip you off and ebay will take their side every time. and ebay sells windows 10 keys for 5 bux each. find a seller with 99% feedback and more than 100 sales and buy it. ive bought more keys this way than i can remember and they always worked. whenever i see a friend with windows 10 not acitivated i just send them a key. its 3-5 bux. who cares. ive activated many peoples systems over the years

  23. BRAH, RTX IS WACK. HOW IS GORDON GONNA SAY HE IS A 60 FPS GUY? PCMR IS ON 240HZ!

    RTX IS A FAIL. THE HARDWARE IS JUST TOO UNDER POWERED.

  24. get an evga 600+ white for 19 bux
    windows 10 pro key on ebay for 3 bux
    rx 470 for 120 or a 1060 6gb on zotac for 139
    get 3000 mgz 16gb 2x8gb for 60 bux
    cheap board for 50
    cheap case for 20. newegg has atx case for 20, diy red one with 2 fans
    500gb 660p for 49 on newegg sale
    2600 (first gen is really slow for about 30% of games, dont trust everybodys benches, they cherry pick)
    you can even get a 6 core i5 for 130 if you watch newegg sales and get a b360 board for about 60-70

    boom

  25. Famn guys. That skype call with Brad look so freaking real!! Good job Skype for the high real life like quality on the calls.

  26. Allaina won…
    Gordon can moan and complain all he want… Spending over 100$ is straight up stupid. Get a win7 like Allaina did, or if that is too much work, what it seemed to be for Gordon, go to one of the key sellers, you can get them for something like 12-15$ no problem. When you are doing a budget build where every dollar counts, using more than 20% of your budget on an OS is just not realistiv when you have other viable options.
    Gordon also seems to really oppose the idea of upgrading, and doesn't really want to give it the credit it deserves, because he didn't think much about that when he did his system. But the fact, this is a budget build, getting the 500$ might require a lot of saveing. But you might want something better, and if you keep saveing, its a lot easier to save up 50-100$ over a span of time than other 500. So you might get more ram down the road. in a year or 2 when ryzen 3000 parts start to fall a lot in price because of 4000, well you might have saved up enough to get one of them, and you can do it for maybe 100$ because it is ALL you have to change.
    For a budget builder the trickle upgrading seems like the most likely way to do it for me, and the point about AM4 motherboards makes really good sense here.

  27. Great show this week! For the build-off winner I would have a tie between Brad and Alaina on great AMD builds. Currently running a Ryzen 2600 myself on a B450. But I actually did what Adam did but for a VR gaming/triple monitor perspective (flight/driving sims) and got more GPU power, plus more PSU overhead as well.

  28. Did Gordon just equated the 1080 Ti with a Dual Core? WOW, that's crazy. I agree with Brad and everyone else, that the 2080Ti just didn't bring enough to the table to justify $1,200 at release. One year later and i don't think number of games with ray tracing reach double digits, of which to my knowledge only "Metro" has gained any acclaim as been a good game. Gordon needs to let go of that shovel and step away from the hole. He just sounds silly.

  29. I think that you missed the point here, ray tracing will be important but the current cards are not fast enough and therefore won't have anything like a 5-year lifetime

  30. Hey Gordon, you can get Windows 10 pro from Lvlgo for roughly 15$, why pay full price!!?? Lol! Put that in a better CPU!

  31. Unregistered win10 = no customsations (dark mode, scaling, theming) which matters in build 1903 dark room and light theme, can you say blowout?. And on used motherboard, isn't the win10 OEM product tied to the board? If so, wouldn't installing win10 and logging in with microsoft account auto register it? In the end, pay $190 for full retail win10 Pro and take it to every rebuild in the future (P.C. answer), or spend $35 for 5 systems over last 6 years on ebay product keys (my choice).

    I also believe most 1st builds had a previous machine, either hand-me-down, parents bought, etc. So its usually an "I could do it better my way" situation. 4 year old machine, reuse the case, possible the PSU. Ram is more than likely DDR4.

  32. They spent so much time arguing about ray tracing. The fact remains the first generation of any new tech like that sucks at it. When the games finally start taking advantage of it 2-3 years later the card they bought to "future proof" can't even run the effects at any decent framerate. It was a bad choice to buy first gen RTX then, it's bad to buy first gen RTX now.

  33. Allow me to play devil's advocate. If you are so broke that you only have $500 to buy a gaming PC, should you even? I'm not saying you shouldn't have a computer but a used low end system with integrated graphics can be had for $200. If all you have is $500, for the love of God, please don't spend it on a gaming PC. There are much more important things in life than gaming.

  34. I am totally on Gordon' side of the RTX argument here. If you're buying cards expecting to keep them for 4-5years (and IMHO you should be if spending $500+ on a GPU) then you definitely want extra features even if they aren't widely used in the short term. There are a lot of PC gamers still using Maxwell and older GPUs so hold cards for 4+ years is normal. Even argument that, "AMD talked about async compute as the future and only now are DX12 and Vulkan games coming out using it" doesn't really hold because if you bought an AMD card and held it you will be gradually seeing more games supporting async compute now. I mean if you bought a Vega 56/64 you would not be upgrading to an RX 5700(XT), it makes little sense; you'd be waiting till at least Navi 20.

    The issue with tech features in GPUs (especially relating to APIs) is that developers and game studios have been lazy and refused to move to the newer APIs and Microsoft didn't force their hands by ending support for Windows 7 earlier than the planned January 2020. Becasue pc games are about the lowest OS and hardware common denominator, not ending Windows 7 earlier probably gave devs and studios excuses to continue focusing on DX11 and ignoring DX12 or Vulkan or treating them as after thoughts for bad ports.

    Also agree with Gordon on the 60hz + eye candy thing. Personally would rather play games at 4K+HDR+extras like ray tracing at 60fps, than play games at 1440p or lower resolutions at 240hz. Personal preference, but just find the image quality is far too jarring at 1440p or 1080p to be overcome by high frame rates. Unless you're gaming on smaller sized monitors, like 24 inch or below, the pixel density delta between 4K and lower resolutions on the same screen size is very noticable and the viewing distance will also have to increase at the lower pixel density. 1080p and 1440p on a laptop is fine but not on 27inch+ displays

  35. Full 110$ price for win 10 that even Microsoft don't think any savvy buyer
    will fall for and all that for 500$ budget PC?!
    What a huge facepalm!

  36. Brad single ram stick is really going to hurt the build hard, i like all the other components, oh Brad you really failed there and on other stuff you talked about, the RAM i really can't let that slide through, there are some components that could be better picked, i know it's a fixed budget but still you talk on some stuff like the PSU 80+ Bronze and other stuff and go with a single stick(you could had got a same price board with 4 ram slots and fix that issue with 2x8gb, well to be honest i thought you were more tech savvy, Gordon build was good too but going with A320 is a miss too, seems you guys were looking more at the budget then really at the components and their longevity and performance, Alaina build was good, Adam wins.

  37. Going to have to side with Brad's build here simply because he had 16GB vs. Alaina's 8GB. Both were single channel so that's a moot point. Plus he had enough wiggle room for Alaina's OS option.

  38. All Brad and Alaina needed to do was to put a line item in their build: Linux Mint, Steam Play/Proton, Lutris, Wine: Free and then Gordon couldn't complain about "no OS". There was no pre-condition about Windows being the OS and, as much as Gordon might protest, Linux is now a viable alternative to Windows in most areas.

  39. Wow so much hate for ray tracing (RTX). Well its not like the RTX cards don't perform well normally and in my country RX 5700 Xt is just around 70 to 50$ cheaper than a 2070 Super and i am talking about the blower style card AIB partners cards will probably cost as much as RTX 2070 super .

  40. You want a cheap legal legit windows license. Go to a swap meet or goodwill an buy the cheapest old tower you can find with windows 7, and just use the key on the side of the tower πŸ™‚

  41. hopefully u guys can put monitor too in the budget build. Many of normal users are familiar with budget proc & GC not the monitors. thanks

  42. The thing is you sacrifice way too much for ray tracing. Suppose you want to play at 1440p, you can buy a 2060 Super or an RX 5700. If you try to play at 1440p with ray tracing and that 2060 Super, your frames will drop way more than what I would be comfortable with, and I don't think I'd like to play at smooooth 30fps, specially if I bought a $400 GPU.

  43. Brads $500 build is my fav. You can buy Win 10 on Kinguin for around $20 and that is legit, so pair that with Brads build and you’re good to go. Or if you want cheaper but almost as powerful, go with Gordon’s build and win 10 from Kinguin.

  44. Intel's greatest enemy is not AMD, its their own marketing department.
    The naming and product convention they use is just incredibly mindboggling but it is a product of another Intel Problem…
    Useless, Excessive tiering of products and creating lines no one asked for nor ever wanted, the market doesn't need 10,000 different CPU options for the sake of marketing and product stacking in a corporate need to create pricing tiers.

    Jensen actually does have some merit to what he is stating, but I would only say for 2070, 2080, and 2080ti level of cards, the oxymoron is there is no other alternative other than older NVidia cards, in which case you might be crazy for buying a non-raytracing card. Now for people buying <550$ I think its not really a big deal as you will be swapping cards out in a shorter life span.

    The bottom line is Ray Tracing is the next rendering method on the horizon, the fact they can do Hybrid graphics at this point is amazing,
    As time goes on adoption will rise and its better to have it and maybe not need it versus wanting it but not being able to flip the switch and use it.

    Ray Tracing is the Future
    Sprite->Vector->Rasterization with Scanline rendering-> Ray tracing
    Somewhere in there if you want include Radiosity, Ray Casting/Path Tracing as other thrown around types.

    Now 3000 series 7nm UVL/EUV…….I would think you may have a buyers remorse if you didn't buy something capable of RT. DIe shrink Performance and/or TDP, and a much finer process lithography with more cherry picked premium dies and low defect yields per wafer.. they should be cheaper and better.

  45. i'm a huge nay sayer when it comes to ray tracing for now, but come on gordon we all know that anyone who said ray tracing wasn't going anywhere is short sighted beyond believe… don't go for that easy win, it's too easy.
    the hate that followed the RTX launch is simply because of nvidia growing RTX on the backs of users who buy into it now when it's basicly still in pre-alpha phase.
    in jensen's defense though: if they waited longer RTX arrival and the inevitable waiting period for RTX to catch on would've been that much later.

  46. I interpreted that statement as, if you're gonna spend $300-350+, why not have the ray tracing. Not that I agree but it really didn't bother me lol.

  47. Brad's build wins by default. Gordon wasted $110 on Windows. Alaina cheated and bought used components on eBay. APM didn't build a gaming PC.

  48. Too much talk about something THAT DOESN'T EXISTS, ray tracing does not exists. "it will come, look at dx12" yes, dx 12 started in 2012, 7 years ago and that is an API which makes sense, not a rendering method which DOES NOT makes sense. Ray tracing wont be a thing EVER, because when you get the hardware to run that in 2025 or later, minimum, real time common raster engines will be almost the same quality visually than ray tracing and for 500% more performance, which means bigger worlds, physics, IA, resolution, FPS, etc.

    For god's sake forget about raytracing. You want to be positive towards nvidia? Nvidia has the fastest cards in the world, maybe a little bit more blurry than AMD cards but a lot faster like the 2080ti or the titan. Ray tracing doesn't make anything real for nvidia as an advantage.

    For games, the best thing a game developer can do today is IGNORE IT. Because you get so much more visual quality from particles, using GI, AO and volumetric with raster engines. And the best of all things are still POLYGONS and TEXTURE/MATERIALS. Just make your assets PBR and use 4k resolution textures with higher polygon density and any raytraced game will look like shit.

  49. Tell me ONE game with raytracing that looks good (really good, not blocky minecraft good) because of raytracing? THERE IS NONE. The wont be, ever.

  50. "developers like raytracing" what? who? EA? The ones paid by nvidia? Developers hate working with nvidia, say that, they prefer AMD. But the head of the company, the money guys in AAA, specially EA say "hey, nvidia gives us money, so don't care".

    Fuck this shit selling raytracing which does NOTHING but destroy your FPS.

  51. Why is it that every $500 dollar PC build doesn't include keyboard, mice and Monitor!! It's assumed that everybody has one like a TV when comparing to a console which isn't the real world!

  52. I just bought parts for someone Friday, went for best for the money parts not a hard price cap. Ended right around $600. 8gb video card is a must for me it you plan to play AAA games.
    16 gb 3000mhz ram, 660p ssd, decent mesh case, thermaltake smart PSU, 2600, b450, rx 580 8gb. Stuff like the case and PSU you'll reuse for a long time, I think it's worth spending a bit more. I'd upgrade to ryzen 4000 and add new gpu in the next coming years. Good to go.

  53. Intel: We're great and we have great laptop parts
    AMD: We're great and we have great PC, Server, Game Console parts and are about to release great HEDT parts. And in game consoles, we now OWN the market, in servers we just put to shame Intel's best CPU, and the PC market our top CPUs beat handily Intel's best in production apps minus poorly threaded production apps, which shouldn't exist anyway (Abobe Premiere).

    Intel: But we have great laptop parts even though we're stuggling to meet the demand for the upcoming shopping period release.

    AMD: Know how it feels, we keep selling out stock in EVERY OTHER market while also having to produce all the parts for game consoles. But don't worry, next year we'll take part of that laptop load off of ya.

  54. Seem quick to forget where people were coming from, those few months around the RTX 20-series announcement and launch. 1080 Ti was priced really sweet for the first few months. Then something kinda happened and for over a bloody year, almost a year and a half, a 1080 Ti cost 15 hundred f*cking dollars. If you could even find one. And around the announcement and preorders of the 20-series – a 1080 Ti was like 550, 600 at most, every other day. You could not even preorder a 2070 for that. Half a year after launch, still not a single bloody game supporting RTX ray tracing. People had every reason in the world to stay FAAAAR away from the RTX cards – unless you absolutely wanted the brute performance of the 2080 Ti. For the price of two 1080 Tis and a 1TB NVMe drive.

  55. Rtx arguement comes down to minecraft πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ its a kids game designed for kids πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

  56. Should ray tracing factor into a purchasing decision right now? No. It doesn't make a big difference and it tanks performance. In two years? Ray tracing performance might be a big part of a purchasing decision, but not right now.

  57. I like the 3800X cpu and the 3900X should be someone who needs a TR for the I/O. If RT goes to the CPU in the new DX a 3900X with 4-6 cores to game and 2-4 cores for other processes and 4 cores to RT, then a 3900X to game makes good sinse. A 5800XT (in the fall) and 3900X with RT on the cpu is going to be the gamer KING. Sony and MS are going to AMD APUs with Navi graphics and promise RT. MS is going to tailor DX to use CPU core for RT. A 5800XT at 2070 Super prices and near 2080S performance will be KING. A 12 core 3900X with a little AM4 socket and 4 spare cores to push DX core RT will be KING. That's $1000 for CPU/GPU that tops an Nvidia RTX 2080S in RT Gaming. And a 2080S cost how much?

  58. I'm impressed by the new Dell XPS 13" ulta books with Ice Lake 2 in 1's with better Intel video. However they all have embedded batteries. What happens when you eventually need a new battery ?? I can put a new battery in my 10 yr old Vaio ultra book (made in Japan) for 50 bucks.

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